6323	Forums / Theology Forum / Re: Free Will?	on: May 25, 2008, 09:09:32 AM
Quote from: toadbat on May 24, 2008, 02:43:26 PM As I understand it, before the fall, our parents had the power to choose whether or not they were going to sin (i.e. jump). After they made that choice (for themselves and all of us), they no longer had any more choice about whether they were (ultimately) going to sin or not; God had to start making provisions right then and there so that their inclination to sin did not ultimately take them away from Him. While they (and we) still had (and have) free will, that free will in not autonomous; it cannot operate independently from the dictates of our sin nature. The whole argument (and I recall we covered this one in another thread) is what impelled our parents to make that choice (i.e. jump) in the first place. The conclusion I came to was that at that moment, though they still had unimpaired free will, to partake of the fruit appeared as a greater good then obeying the command - yet they still had the power to come back from that line before they crossed it. However, cross it they did (and the rest is our sad, sorry, horrifying history). I guess the lesson we can take away from this is that whatever else, a will unimpaired by sin does not categorically mean one that cannot be deceived. To believe otherwise, would mean having to believe that sin existed in our parents before it existed, and that, of course, is a logical absurdity."   Answer.....  If the will is only influenced by sin then it is not the cause of sin and we could conclude that we are sinners because we are free to choose between good and evil. If the sin did not infect the cause of our choosing then it would be an influence. But we are corrupted in every part. And the responsible view of this is getting to the cause. If we were in an equilibrium state, so that we were only influenced in our freedom, the will being passive. Then the will is no will at all. For to will is to choose one thing over another. But the action of all of our corrupted faculties is from a sinful mind and understanding as the cause of all of our choices.  If we are in an equilibrium state then there is no will at all since there is no real choice. So that the object of our choice has all of the power to cause us to choose that object. This is the definition of pragmatism. For to have a necessity to choose evil is not taking responsiblity for our choice away, but it is making us responsible, since the nature of the choice is in the nature of the cause. If there is no corruption in the faculties prior to the involvement of the will, then there is no real punishment for the choice since there is no real choice for the evil. And the object would then have all the power. We know that the object does not have the power to make us choose evil because Adam and Eve were surrounded by a multitude of beautiful objects pre sin and we are not as beautiful post sin, so that we could conclude by the equilibrium state of things that they were worse off that we are post sin.