7479	Forums / Main Forum / Isn't It The Heart That God Judges?	on: May 06, 2007, 02:23:35 PM
Quote Quote Retro I can appreciate the time you take to write your posts. But taking what you have said and then reading mbg's post says something. To me it does. One of the things that I got so tired of with religion is all this confusion. You said one thing and mbg contradicted what you said. And vice versa. I'm not putting anyone down here just pointing out what seems clear to me as THE problem with the Bible. I have no idea if either of you is interpreting correctly. Your at opposite ends. It makes no sense to me to believe God could be behind the writing of a book that confuses people left and right. Shalom, timeout. I'd like you to know that mybigGod and I are not that far apart in our thoughts. We just choose to see things from different perspectives, IMO. I'm not sure whether mybigGod would see it that way; I can't speak for him, but I have done a LOT of research into the Calvinist/Arminian views and I have concluded (for myself) that they were both seeing truths from the Scripture but were ignoring other truths...the opposite truths, in fact! I've used the analogy before, but, to me, it's like walking through a doorway that says above it "whosoever will may enter" and once passing through, looking back at the doorway and seeing above it the phrase "chosen before the foundation of the world." Both views are equally true from the Scriptures, yet somehow we have problems accepting both truths. Most will either camp too much on the "whosoever will" or will camp on the "chosen before the foundation of the world." Just because mybigGod chose to point out the truth that it is all of God who does the choosing, does not negate that Scriptures also say "whosoever will may come and drink of the water that I shall give him." It is also, at least from our perspective, partly our choice. Retrobyter I guess you are a  two pointer? Well if the 5 points are not logically interrelated then the new math is correct. That is 4 +4 could equal any other number than 8.  TULIP is the full flower. It doesnt need any new scientific genetic restriction. Even tho you may try to make orthodoxy- Retro orthodoxy the historical orthodoxy of the 5 points is the pure lineage of Pauline teaching. If man is totally depraved, then he is more than just morally corrupted but he is spiritually dead. The only answer to this deli-ma is God  moving toward man unconditionally. God choosing man since man is dead to God and without hope. If God purposes in His choice, if He determines to save man, then His determination is without help, without insincerity, without failed ends. That is why His purpose in election is proved in His finishing that work at the cross by its effectiveness in that purpose in the salvation of the elect by the cross. His purpose was without hypocrisy in dying for the elect. So that it is finished was that work of salvation and the power of grace that could not be resisted in the future transaction of that work. Because it was finished truely at the cross, because no truth has a purpose of a lie in it, then the transaction of that personal work to each of His sheep was in free grace, free from all of mans unbelief. So that man is abled to persevere in that free grace for all eternity.