8036	Forums / Main Forum / Why Faith Is A Must	on: January 11, 2007, 04:18:20 PM
Thanks Joker this is an interesting discussion I think it's fair to say that \"the Will\" is the instantaneous sum of our desires and motivations. Here is a question i have. How can the cause( desires), be the same as the effect (the choice)? If that were the case then the mind could be the will or the understanding could be the will. How can you choose something that you have no view of? Its like saying that the tree created the tree. If the desires choose what they please then the actual choice then there would be no actual movement of the body, because the choice is the actual movement toward one object over another. (effect) No matter how much you desire something it can never be  the choice of it. I can desire something that i will not necessarily choose. What the mind does in assessing the object of choice is correlate it with its own existing desires. Habits, past experience are a part of why a person desires one thing over another and are from the understanding. But still the person chooses based upon the strongest desire which is not necessarily rational. I mean we do not always do the rite thing even tho we know it is the rite thing to do. In the end, each individual choice comes down to what pleases us the most at that moment ( The understanding  could also be effected by the nearness of the past experience either negative or positive). So when you hold someone accountable for their choices, you are basically trying to condition them to associate the choice with an existing desire. i.e. this choice brings pain (which you desire to minimize), that choice brings pleasure (which you desire to maximize), this other choice endangers self-preservation (which you desire to avoid). This is where i disagree with the physiologist and philosophers. I do not think that conditioning gets to the desires. The new desires must be through grace -beginning in grace  and ending in grace. The word is transformation not scientific method of conditioning. The desire precede choice. You cannot choose to desire, the will being the effect not the cause. I can argue my point if you want here.