8048	Forums / Main Forum / Why Faith Is A Must	on: January 09, 2007, 03:36:15 PM
However, i believe the Bible teaches that, despite all this persuasion, God does not cross the line of forcing us to accept Christ. His grace (or undeserved love) and truth, no matter how desirable, are not irresistible. I guess since we are talking about choice, that when you say that God does not cross the line, you mean that he does not violate our free will? Which makes our choice a self -determined choice. Or you could say that it is choosing for ourselves. Or you are saying that the cause of our choosing is from our self determined choice. Since there cannot be a cause outside of our will , because if there is a cause outside our will then it would persuade us to choose one way or another. As i have said that unless the will is first in choosing then there is a persuasion that causes us to choose which would violate freedom in how you describe freedom. But prior to choosing the mind must have a view of the object of choice in order for the will to actually embrace either way. Then the understanding is prior to the choice also. But what you are saying that in order for there to be a free choice , the will must determine for itself , there must not be a cause outside of itself. So does a person choose to allow the mind to accept the object in order either to accept the message or not? In that case the mind would be the will. Or the understanding would choose prior to the choice. But really for there to be a choice prior to the choice of what the minds view of the message is then the mind must have a view of what choice there would be in order for the choice of the mind to choose to view whether to accept the message or not. And since it is absolutely necessary for the mind to view the message before choosing then there is a cause prior to the choice that effects the choice. So then your view of freedom is questionable since there is a persuasion to choose (the view of the mind) in order for there to be a choice. Do you really believe that in order for the will to be free it must be in a state of absolute equilibrium i.e not crossing the line of something or some one causing choice? I can explain further if you want.